Bug 1221717

Summary: The installation ISO does not load from a Ventoy medium
Product: [openSUSE] openSUSE Tumbleweed Reporter: Igor Arbichev <arbichev>
Component: InstallationAssignee: E-mail List <yast2-maintainers>
Status: RESOLVED INVALID QA Contact: Jiri Srain <jsrain>
Severity: Normal    
Priority: P5 - None CC: arbichev
Version: Current   
Target Milestone: ---   
Hardware: Other   
OS: Other   
Whiteboard:
Found By: --- Services Priority:
Business Priority: Blocker: ---
Marketing QA Status: --- IT Deployment: ---
Attachments: Photo

Description Igor Arbichev 2024-03-19 14:22:41 UTC 
I have a Lenovo G550 laptop (CPU P9600). Tumbleweed was installed on it for a couple of years and worked fine. Due to the installation of a new ssd, I decided to reinstall Tumbleweed from a fresh image:
openSUSE-Tumbleweed-NET-x86_64-Snapshot20240317-Media.iso
 
dated March 18 this year. Uploaded via Ventoy. At a certain point the download stopped. I waited for a few minutes, then went to the first console. The last message there was:

[    6.715542][      C0]  clocksource: Long readout interval, skipping watchdog check: cs_nsec: 506645582 wd_nsec: 95740350224 

I googled this phrase and found a message from Greg Hartman about a kernel patch that removes the check for some action when loading due to a timeout. But this information does not help solve my problem in any way.
Comment 1 Stefan Hundhammer 2024-03-19 14:50:00 UTC 
Ventoy is not supported. Please simply use the well-documented way to write the ISO to a USB stick (or DVD, if you prefer that).

Why is Ventoy not supported? Because it creates all kinds of problems such as the one that you found, and we'd have to debug their stuff in addition to ours. Sorry.
Comment 3 Igor Arbichev 2024-03-20 10:49:15 UTC 
I burned the ISO file to USB Disk using the ImageWriter utility. 
The system booted successfully. 
But! I'm sorry you're not willing to do the extra work to provide Ventoy support. This is a very convenient tool for a system administrator.
Comment 4 Stefan Hundhammer 2024-03-20 10:52:54 UTC 
Please read the discussions about it in that reddit thread.

Basically, they are doing weird stuff that may work in some cases, and in others it doesn't, but people come to *us* when that tool that has nothing to do with us fails; naturally, because the problem shows up at a completely unrelated place.

Basically *we* would have to pay the price for a little extra convenience for distro hoppers (because who else would benefit?) with an endless stream of weird bugs that we'd have to track down and debug - only to realize that there is nothing that we can do about the problem, because we didn't cause it.
Comment 5 Igor Arbichev 2024-03-20 15:31:58 UTC 
I read the discussion on Reddit.
 There is one case being dealt with, but I have a completely different case. 
I have two Tumbleweed distributions of the same type on my disk. The first of them will be released in 2022. The second one will be released in 2024. 
The first one loads fine. The second one stops during the loading process. You must admit that in the process of developing the distribution you broke compatibility with the Ventoy product.
Comment 6 Stefan Hundhammer 2024-03-20 16:28:18 UTC 
We never "broke compatibility with the Ventoy product", Ventoy was never compatible with SUSE Linux. Notice that THEY need to be compatible to the OS they promise to install (using some trickery), not the other way round.

Of course you can still try it regardless of havinb been warned. You might get lucky, but if you don't, you are on your own. This is what we clearly stated: Ventoy is not supported. It never was.

Now stop flogging that dead horse and simply do it the documented way. Seriously, some people can never be satisfied.
Comment 7 Igor Arbichev 2024-03-21 14:58:07 UTC 
Created attachment 873701 [details]
Photo

I am sending you a photo from the laptop screen.
 
On it you can see Ventoy boot menu. This menu contains two Tumbleweed, one from 20220901, the other from 20240314. As I wrote earlier, the first is loaded, the second is not loaded.
 
What is the difference between these two loading images? They have a different version of the kernel. This is not even the fault of the developers of openSUSE, that in the latest version of the kernel, loading was broken.
 
At my home PC, different versions of openSUSE have been standing for 17 years. 
I am a sure user of openSUSE. 
This is the first time that Ventoy did not work. Your statement that "Ventoy is not supported" speaks of your insufficient competence in this matter.
Comment 8 Stefan Hundhammer 2024-03-22 17:15:01 UTC 
Stop it. If you don't want to understand, read again what I wrote. I really don't care if you maybe got lucky once; that is completely irrelevant.

You are wasting your and our time.
Comment 9 Stefan Hundhammer 2024-03-22 17:18:33 UTC 
(In reply to Igor Arbichev from comment #7)
> This is the first time that Ventoy did not work. 

So you might have been lucky several times.
Relying on luck is not a viable long-term strategy.


> Your statement that "Ventoy is not supported" speaks of 
> your insufficient competence in this matter.

Did you even read the documentation that I gave you?

What do you think why the installation guide explicitly mentions that Ventoy is not supported? Doesn't that make you think?
Comment 10 Igor Arbichev 2024-03-23 09:54:36 UTC 
I am an end user of the openSUSE distribution.

 It doesn’t matter to me what the documentation says, I need the program to work in practice.
I agree to end the discussion so as not to waste your precious time.

 Just remember my prediction well. 

In two months, a new major version of Kernel will be released, openSUSE developers will assemble a new installation image, and it will somehow miraculously boot from Ventoy.

Good luck in your work and in life!