Bug 141031

Summary:	More common sense in choosing KDE and GNOME menu entries is needed!
Product:	[openSUSE] SUSE Linux 10.1	Reporter:	Forgotten User 55iwwMllzz <forgotten_55iwwMllzz>
Component:	Usability	Assignee:	Siegfried Olschner <siegfried.olschner>
Status:	RESOLVED WONTFIX	QA Contact:	Siegfried Olschner <siegfried.olschner>
Severity:	Enhancement
Priority:	P5 - None	CC:	adrian.schroeter, sinderbox+novell, suse-beta
Version:	Alpha 4	Keywords:	Usability
Target Milestone:	---
Hardware:	All
OS:	SUSE Other
Whiteboard:
Found By:	Other	Services Priority:
Business Priority:		Blocker:	---
Marketing QA Status:	---	IT Deployment:	---

Description Forgotten User 55iwwMllzz 2005-12-25 16:13:05 UTC

SuSE should clean up its KDE and GNOME menus, which by default contain shortcuts to legacy software, some of them obsolete by today's usability standards. Take, for instance, the Mutt and Pine items on the Internet -> E-Mail menu. What's the point of having these items there, when that group usually includes KMail, Thunderbird and Evolution, all modern GUI applications? A user coming from the good-looking world of Windows or MacOS world will inevitably receive a bad impression of Linux. Actually, SuSE is probably the only major distribution who still puts menu shortcuts for "jurassic" apps like Xzgv, Xv and Xcalc. In particular, the inclusion of Xv is incomprehensible. This application is not maintained since 1994 (!) and its user interface looks old and rusty.

Red Hat and Ubuntu followed the right path: menus have a selected number of "few but good" apps. It is much less confusing for newcomers, while experienced users can, of course, still customize the menus as they like. 

I am not suggesting that Mutt, Pine and older X apps packages be excluded from SuSE. Just that shortcuts to them shouldn't appear in KDE and GNOME menus. The minority of users who still use these applications already start them from a X Terminal emulator anyway. And the few of them who want a shortcut placed on a desktop environment menu, know how to do it.

Comment 1 Forgotten User 55iwwMllzz 2006-01-30 14:04:12 UTC

Siegfried, isn't there anyone responsible for Usability that can handle this bug?

Comment 2 Siegfried Olschner 2006-01-30 15:34:03 UTC

This is a feature, not a bug, and it is a neverending discussion :)
I don't know the current status. 
But 
 SUSE LINUX -> primary persona is the developer who wants to use a GUI
 Novell Linux Desktop -> primary persona is the normal home and business user

Michl, do you know if there are any decisions to shorten the menu complexity?

Comment 3 Forgotten User 55iwwMllzz 2006-01-31 01:03:14 UTC

> SUSE LINUX -> primary persona is the developer who wants to use a GUI
> Novell Linux Desktop -> primary persona is the normal home and business user

Those are probably the (legitimate) wishes of Novell management. But the reality is that more than 90% of SUSE LINUX users are "normal home and business" users. Many people make their first steps in Linux through SUSE LINUX. It is totally unnecessary to shock them with apps like Xzgv, Xv or Mutt. Not just because of how these applications look and feel, or because they are useful I am sure for no more than 1% of the SUSE user base, but mainly because they are redundant and/or should not belong in the KDE or Gnome menus. 

All the other major distributions have done it. I believe that time as come for SuSE to make a decision too. It is not a radical step. Packages are not being withdrawn from the distribution. Just the shortcuts in KDE/Gnome menu.

Comment 4 Siegfried Olschner 2006-01-31 09:24:09 UTC

Adrian, are Xzgv, Xv or Mutt in the menu of the default installation?

Comment 5 Adrian Schröter 2006-01-31 09:39:12 UTC

no, they aren't.

but they should appear, when people installing it.

Comment 6 Forgotten User 55iwwMllzz 2006-02-05 20:43:39 UTC

I installed Beta3 and, in fact, Mutt, Pine and Xzgv were not installed by default. There are still some debatable items in the KDE menu:
   - xsane  (is there anything xsane does that Kooka doesn't?)
   - xpdf  (is there anything xpdf does that KPDF doesn't?)
   - xawtv (I know this is a popular oldie but... does it really need to be included in a KDE submenu already containing Kdetv?)

Comment 7 Forgotten User 55iwwMllzz 2006-05-04 23:18:40 UTC

I think that mutt, pine, xsane, xpdf and xawtv should not belong to the KDE menu, for the same reason as 'top' or 'netstat' are not there either.
But I realize that this bug is somewhat subjective and it is too late for it to receive any attention before 10.1 final.
So I am marking it as LATER.

Comment 8 Stephan Kulow 2008-06-25 09:34:29 UTC

mass reopening all SuSE Linux bugs that are set to REMIND+LATER to change the resolution to WONTFIX (adapting to new policy)

Comment 9 Stephan Kulow 2008-06-25 09:36:38 UTC

mass reopening all SuSE Linux bugs that are set to REMIND+LATER to change the resolution to WONTFIX (adapting to new policy)

Comment 10 Stephan Kulow 2008-06-25 09:41:46 UTC

mass reopening all SuSE Linux bugs that are set to REMIND+LATER to change the resolution to WONTFIX (adapting to new policy)

Comment 11 Stephan Kulow 2008-06-25 09:53:12 UTC

Closing old LATER+REMIND bugs as WONTFIX - if you still plan to work on it, feel free to reopen and set to ASSIGNED.

In case the report saw repeated reopen comments, it's due to bugzilla timing out on the huge request ;(