Bug 421660

Um, bug #409171 requested to remove the popup asking for starting the package manager again.

What should be the correct solution? Adding a "Don't ask again" check box so all users can choose the behavior?

Sure, once you are done with that program, it shuts down. Why not? What's the problem?

We did have that "Install more packages?" pop-up in the past because the startup time was so bad, in particular with all the package management related things. But now that this has become so fast, this is no longer necessary. But quite a number of people were annoyed by that pop-up, so we removed it.

Related to the bug 409171, i didn´t know you decided to remove it. I agree with comment by Ladislav, the best solution for users is adding the "Don't ask again" check box.
Sometimes i forget to install any package and i have to launch software management again and this is troublesome, although software management is much faster since 11.0.

Please elaborate: Why is it troublesome to simply start it again?

If you started it from a shell, you can simply use the shell history. If you started it from the YaST control center, that control center should still be open, and it requires a grand total of one click.

Please note that that check box would not be useful: You would never have a second chance to ever see it again if you checked it. Those checkbox pop-ups are useful for warning messages that some users wish to ignore, but not for simple questions like here.

(In reply to comment #4 from Stefan Hundhammer)
> Please elaborate: Why is it troublesome to simply start it again?

It still running me on the background, on the another virtual desktop. It´s my habit and i´m too lazy to start software management again ;-).
 
> If you started it from a shell, you can simply use the shell history. If you
> started it from the YaST control center, that control center should still be
> open, and it requires a grand total of one click.

I don't start it neither from the shell nor from the YaST control center. I start it directly via the Install software.

Never mind, do as you like. If you want, you can close this bug :-)

I'll keep the current state.

Sorry, but i must reopen this bug.
I've been testing Alpha and Beta versions for some time already and I still can't get familiar with that - it's really annoying. If i forget to install any package, i have to launch software management again.
I posted new thread, where you can read, what do other users think about it.

http://forums.opensuse.org/pre-release-beta/398565-closing-software-management-after-installation-package.html

I think a lot of people will appreciate, that feature will be back, for example at least with adding "Don't ask again" check box, so all users can choose the behavior.
Fact that launching of software management is quick enough is not a very good argument. 
Why do you want to change habits?

*** Bug 440066 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Ratislav, we had a number of bugs where users wanted the opposite - get rid of that pop-up and don't ask any questions.

You don't lose any data. Start-up time is quick now. Really, why can't ANYBODY accept decisions being made by the people who have to run after the bugs all the time? Why do those people who don't have to do the work this stuff involves feel they have to second-guess whatever we do?

Restoring old resolution.

Ok. Just the last note.
If you had a number of bugs where users wanted the opposite, is it possible to  make compromise? For example as is mentioned in comment #3 by Ladislav - adding the "Don't ask again" check box.

Yes, that could be a compromise. But there is a problem: There is no simple way to enable it again once the popup is disabled.

But it´s still better as nothing

How about the option to implement a two button system like the partitioner uses?

The APPLY (brings you back to the software management after install), and FINISH (closes after install) button.

That seems like both parties are getting what they want... no ' nagging ' pop-up but leaving choice.

Cheers,
  Wj

Please, let's not make simple things more complex all the time. Those debates tend to result in compromises that everybody hates. I've been there countless times.

Restarting the package selector is just one single mouse click away.

Actually it's looking for a way to keep it simple.. maybe even trying to get each interface in line with one an other.

The fact that something gets removed that some have become accustomed to is sure to get noticed.

One situation where it's very useful to return to the software screen is when applying incremental updates (like zypper needing to be upgraded before other packages can be upgraded) or if wanting to check that updates or different versions might be available, check the changelog of a freshly installed package or just browse for extra modules you need.

I think it's cutting it to short by saying you've been somewhere where others are trying to think and look at the best solution for all.... not all these things end in a hated compromise.

Just my 2cents on that..

My thought is that maybe I am updating 20 or so packages @ 100MB. For me thats going to take 5 minutes max, but maybe I am looking online and then notice another program I want to try out, instead of restarting it I waited until it finished and then went back to the same screen. It was just a nice feature for those of us for who use and install software a lot. But whatever, if it's easier to leave it like this I'll get use to it.

*** Bug 441329 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

To my mind the disadvantages of the system as it stands now are as follows
- You have to restart the software manager every time you forgot to add something, or found something while the installer was already working. No problem perhaps if you have a speedy system but users on older, slower systems will be suffering as starting the manager is just going to be slower
- This is personal of course, but i lack confidence in the stability of computers and software. Every time the manager ups and vanishes i am left to wonder whether it installed sucesfully or something went wrong. Some post-installation feedback would be desireable i think. It could also offer the posibility of launcing the application where applicable.

The advantage of th system as is:
- One less button to click, half a second saved

I totally agree that software installation procedure should have some sort of exit code (just to make sure that everything went ok). Previously, exiting without confirmation dialog was an abnormal behavior.

And if you have a lot of repos it is very annoying to restart software manager. Couldn't you just add an option to /etc/sysconfig/sw_management which would toggle this behavior back and fort?

This behavior is extremely annoying especially when your trying to compile something that requires libraries to be installed. It was much handier to run your ./configure with yast open and then add libraries as needed to complete the configure. Instead of just removing the "Do you want to add more packages" dialog they should have made it at least a preference in the Yast Software module to let the user choose the behavior desired.

(In reply to comment #2 from Stefan Hundhammer)
> Sure, once you are done with that program, it shuts down. Why not? What's the
> problem?
> 
> We did have that "Install more packages?" pop-up in the past because the
> startup time was so bad, in particular with all the package management related
> things. But now that this has become so fast, this is no longer necessary. But
> quite a number of people were annoyed by that pop-up, so we removed it.
> 

You've probably annoyed MORE people getting rid of it, Stefan. I want it back, too. I don't install all my software at once. When I add software, I tend to do it as a package at a time, so I can look at the additional dependencies, etc. I really don't like the current behaviour at all. Please return it. 

Look, Stefan, I understand that you made the changes and that you don't want to feel that you've either made a mistake, or wasted your time. But you HAVE made a mistake when you thought people didn't value this feature. People do. Some of us don't want to wait while all our repositories are refreshed. (Yes, it's much faster, but just seems such a counter-intuitive thing to do). It shouldn't take a lot of work just to put it back the way it was. Please do that.

For all interested: I will address this problem in 11.2, see bug 431854. (It was originally reported for failed installations, but it will be configurable and can be displayed always.)

Consider the option of two buttons: "Accept- resume when done" and Accept - leave when done".  That's about the most foolproof scheme and involves the least work.  Call the apply function or jump to it.  I really favor the resume ability on some of the old clunkers around here.

I was also surprised by this behavior, though I have to admit in some cases in previous version pop-up dialog was annoying. But the re-start time is still noticeable. I'm not sure what will happen if I add more repositories. Will the start time increase?
Why not to have some "configuration" option somewhere to enable/disable exit confirmation?

(In reply to comment #25 from Mark Goldstein)
> I was also surprised by this behavior, though I have to admit in some cases in
> previous version pop-up dialog was annoying. But the re-start time is still
> noticeable. I'm not sure what will happen if I add more repositories. Will the
> start time increase?
> Why not to have some "configuration" option somewhere to enable/disable exit
> confirmation?
> 

That would be the only logical solution that would work for everybody.  Any time a 180 degree change in behavior is wanted it should be left as a user preference, not locked in without any chance of reverting.  This should have never happened, this is basic UI Design 101 stuff.

I just have implemented a configurable solution for those who don't like the default behavior, see details in my mail on opensuse-factory list:

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-01/msg00492.html

(In reply to comment #27)
> I just have implemented a configurable solution for those who don't like the
> default behavior, see details in my mail on opensuse-factory list:
> 
> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-01/msg00492.html

It doesn't work for me.
Attached y2logs.

Created attachment 267472 [details]
y2logs

You apparently didn't change the action performed at exit:

2009-01-24 19:58:01 <1> linux-uigx(5805) [YCP] clients/sw_single.ycp:600 PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT: close

You have to change PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT variable in /etc/sysconfig/yast2 file either to "restart" (restart the package management after package installation) or to "summary" (display the new summary dialog, use [Back] and [Finish] buttons either to go back to the package management or to exit).

The default is "close" which is the same as in 11.1-final.

(In reply to comment #30)
> You apparently didn't change the action performed at exit:
> 
> 2009-01-24 19:58:01 <1> linux-uigx(5805) [YCP] clients/sw_single.ycp:600
> PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT: close
> 
> You have to change PKGMGR_ACTION_AT_EXIT variable in /etc/sysconfig/yast2 file
> either to "restart" (restart the package management after package installation)
> or to "summary" (display the new summary dialog, use [Back] and [Finish]
> buttons either to go back to the package management or to exit).
> 
> The default is "close" which is the same as in 11.1-final.

Yes, you're right. My fault.
Thank you very much.

Hello Ladislav,
Will it go into official updates for 11.1 one day? I just tried to install your factory implementation, but it turned out that yast2 is already at version 2.17.59-1.2.13 and yast2-packager is still 2.17.50-1.4. So I probably have to downgrade yast2.

(In reply to comment #32)
> Hello Ladislav,
> Will it go into official updates for 11.1 one day?

No, we do not backport features as maintenance update for 11.1.

I have updated my OBS project, now it's in sync with the updates. The packages should be installable now.

Ladislav, thanks a lot!

*** Bug 561829 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***