Bugzilla – Bug 117498
Usability: Uninformed Reboot during Installation process
Last modified: 2008-04-23 16:01:49 UTC
In the current installation process, the user chooses an installation method from the Installation CD menu, goes through the process, and the system is rebooted for the second stage of installation. The CD is not ejected and the installation menu is presented to the user again. The correct selection is to boot from harddisk and continue the process, but this is not obvious to users with no experience installing Linux. It is extremely confusing to users who have never installed Linux. The system is rebooted in the middle of the timeline given to the user and the same installation CD menu is presented to them with no hints. Users may think the installation failed and begin installation again, and may be wary of booting from disk because they know installation has not been completed. This reduces the user's trust in the installation process and the software and makes them frustrated. There are several improvements which can be made to reduce this issue: * Add "Reboot system" in the timeline to give user prior knowledge of what to expect during the installation process * Instruct the user to select the appropriate menu item ('Boot from harddisk' in this case) prior to rebooting for the second stage of installation * Create a more intuitive menu item in the Installation menu to help the user choose the correct step (eg: Continue Installation, Installation Part 2, Configure System, etc..) instead of "Boot from harddisk"
It is even more confusing when doing a dual-boot installation and keeping the windows bootmanager. In this case "Boot from harddisk" doesn't work since then windows or the windows bootmanager (which doesn't know anything about the to be installed linux yet) boots. To get the not-yet-finished linux to run you have to chose one of the other options. I did this now maybe already on ten boxes and I still can't remember which of the options is the right one. It would be really good to make this step more obvious. Alex
Steffen: I think the last point is interesting for you: having another point that the user is sure to pick during reboot at this point sounds a good idea - even if it duplicates functionality.
Just a reminder: a CD is a _read-only_ medium. There's no way to make it work differently after installation than before. 'Boot from hard disk' will of course boot the newly installed linux and not windows. That's the whole point of it. Unless you explicitly want windows to be started - but then you can't complain. To sum it up: sorry, I've no idea what you want.
Windows have "Press any key to start the installation" when the Installation CD is the drive ;) On the other hand, YaST informs user with "The system will reboot now..." and could be more informative...
This is all about more information. @3 What Celeste suggests (beside what Lukas says) is having either a "Boot from hard disk/Continue Installation" or make this two points that are the same and have Yast point the user to the second one. After all for the user the installation isn't finished yet, so "boot from hard disk" sounds like booting the old craft.
First: while our install cd is already nearly functionally identical to the windows one, do we really have to use the same wording to make people comfortable? 'continue install' does not work. We have 'start install' already and even I would not know which one to go for. Why do you associate 'boot hard disk' with old stuff? You just installed linux on it - I would assume it boots the new system (and that's what it does).
The installation process is not "completed" so the user has no idea if the system is bootable or not. You show them a timeline during the process and reboot in the middle of it so it looks incompleted. Sure, you format the drives and copy software, but its still not clear to the user the installation is successful because it is interrupted without much warning. If you add "reboot" in the timeline you show the user and alert them ahead of time what they should do in order to complete the installation. The fix isnt to just change the installation menu, its informing the user of the process so they know whats going on. The issue is you dont alert the user of what is going to happen, so making the correct choice from the CD menu is difficult. How do they know the difference between the installation failing and starting over, or the installation resuming? Converts arnt going to have trust in the software, and newer users arnt going to feel comfortable with their knowledge to be 100% it went smoothly.
Well, YaST _does_ say in advance that it is going to reboot. Along with a 10 seconds countdown. And that is even exactly what windows does, IIRC. Sure, it could be mentioned explicitly in the timeline. That would assume that YaST knows what it does, though. :-)
(In reply to comment #6) ... > 'continue install' does not work. We have 'start install' already and > even I would not know which one to go for. > > Why do you associate 'boot hard disk' with old stuff? You just installed > linux on it - I would assume it boots the new system (and that's what > it does). I'll give you some more details. At work we install linux only on very few boxes and then as secondary operating system. The primary one is usually Win 2k or XP. Our linux installation isn't supported by our IT-service and they barely tolerate it. So we keep the windows boot manager, so that the box remains as much as possible unchanged (i.e. grub is not installed in the MBR, but in the first sector of the install partition). So after the first reboot in the installation process I find myself back in the install CD menu. There I can choose between "Start installation" and "Boot from harddisk". If I select "boot from harddisk", the windows bootmanager starts, and there no linux exists (yet) -> no way to continue with the linux installation here. If I select "Start installation" (well, I didn't finish installation, and this is the only point related to installation) it starts again from the beginning. IIRC I have to enter the advanced boot menu in text mode and then select "repair existing installation" or something like this. As I said, I can't remember. A good idea would be: [ ] Start installation [ ] Continue with second stage of installation [ ] Boot from harddisk ... where "Continue..." would ideally check the available partitions for linux partitions and if there are more than one provide a dialog where I can choose on which partition I want to continue with the installation. Bye Alex
But in this case, "Boot from hard disk" will be the same as "Continue with...", as once Linux kernel is loaded, all that can be done is to continue with different root directory. But there will be problem if there is other than default kernel installed (SMP machine, too much menory,...). In this case, you will not be able to load any kernel modules (which will result to impossibility to set up network, any hardware devices,...). So, there is no safe way to continue installation this way, installation must continue directly from boot. Sorry, but I have no clue how I could help here.
Jiri, please ignore what Alexander wrote. This is not about a technical problem, but about a usability problem. It's pretty fine if it does the same, this is only about guidance to the user. And yes, Alexander's problem is WONTFIX. Back to the original problem
OK, reassigning to Sigi (as the problem is about usability).
Yep, way back in the SUSE 10 beta days I complained about the unexpected reboot, and it hasn't changed. I think it would help a lot if the left hand column of items that is being checked off as you go along had entries like: Initial install from 1st media Initial reboot prior to installing remaining media Continue installation of any additional media That way there would at least be some indication in the checklist that a reboot was expected.
The installation sequence is a task in my calendar now. I will make some considerations.
ad comment 9: it looks more like what you want is 'start installed system', not 'continue install'. See bug 129349.
Stefen, can you send me current screenshots showing the texts in the different installation and boot stages?
No. Why don't you do a install yourself and make screenshots along the way?
I thought that you are a helpful colleague. I thought you are the maintainer of this stuff. And I thought you already have some current screenshots. So I have to make my own way.
Sigi, I guess there are only 2 screenshots you might be interested in: 1. Insert the CD in the drive and boot the machine and watch the menu (it is the same when you start the installation as after 1st stage is finished) 2. The popup when rebooting, I can post you all texts (there are multiple posisbilities depending on the installation mode and architecture).
I am. I am not. I don't.
Steffen: Most important is the plus in the first line. I know, you are. :) Jiri: thx, the text will help a lot. BTW: Do we have a kind of workflow diagram showing the installation sequence with it's different options and paths?
Reorganization of usability-bug assignments. We try to discharge the number of our bug entries in the next weeks. => Reassigned to efuchs
I agree that it is extremely confusing to users who have never installed Linux when they get presented the same installation menu a second time when they think they already have installed a base system successfully. Here it is a must to give the user more transparency. I would suggest a new/additional entry that can be selected like: "Continue installation with initial boot from hard disk"
Hm, could you give the _complete_ CD menu you propose (say, for 10.3)?
after all these years, it's finally no longer an issue - the installation won't boot through the CD anymore. thanks to the power of kexec