Bug 118736 - Bug in installation of French Canadian Keyboard and perhaps other keyboards
Summary: Bug in installation of French Canadian Keyboard and perhaps other keyboards
Status: RESOLVED WORKSFORME
Alias: None
Product: SUSE LINUX 10.0
Classification: openSUSE
Component: Installation (show other bugs)
Version: RC 1
Hardware: PC SUSE Other
: P5 - None : Normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Marcus Schaefer
QA Contact: Klaus Kämpf
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2005-09-25 14:49 UTC by Michel Catudal
Modified: 2005-09-29 15:07 UTC (History)
3 users (show)

See Also:
Found By: Customer
Services Priority:
Business Priority:
Blocker: ---
Marketing QA Status: ---
IT Deployment: ---


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Description Michel Catudal 2005-09-25 14:49:17 UTC
When choosing the French language and a French Canadian Keyboard the
French AZERTY keyboard is kept during the installation. What can happen
is that if you use any characters that are not at the same place on
a QWERTY keyboard you may not be able to login since you would have no
clue what password you entered. It is also impossible to enter an
entry when changing the hard disk partitioning since the user has no
clue where the / is.

A work around is to use the US Keyboard during installation but those
people who are not familiar with Linux would object to that.
Recently I had to help out one of my brothers who had a non functional system.
I solved the problem by telling him where the keys were for the AZERTY keyboard.
It turns out that the password was accepted using the keys of an AZERTY keyboard

For instance if you were to enter a password waz4p9 you had actually
entered a password zqw4p9

With this you get a cranky customer who thinks that SuSE Linux is a piece
of crap.

I have seen what may be a similar problem on a Debian install at one
time. I didn't think about it then and assumed I had a broken system.
My choice was at the time to toss the frisby in the garbage can and
ignore Debian from that point on. The only thing that I had working
on Debian was the automatic login without a password request.

That bug may exist on some other installation, I wouldn't know since
I only speak French and English.
Comment 1 Michel Catudal 2005-09-25 14:50:42 UTC
The same problem has existed on all the SuSE installation as far as I can
remember.
Comment 2 Michael Radziej 2005-09-26 13:30:46 UTC
Please attach the complete /var/log/YaST2 directory.
See https://bugzilla.novell.com/page.cgi?id=fields.html#bug_severity
Comment 3 Jiří Suchomel 2005-09-26 15:58:37 UTC
Umm.. I don't exactly know what are you reporting. That "French Canadian
Keyboard" is not actually used when is it selected?
Comment 4 Michel Catudal 2005-09-27 01:20:31 UTC
(In reply to comment #3)
> Umm.. I don't exactly know what are you reporting. That "French Canadian
> Keyboard" is not actually used when is it selected?

It uses the AZERTY French keyboard when the French language is choosen and
a French Canadian keyboard is choosen. The only work around that I have
found was to enter a password that would use keys that are at the same
place on both keyboard and change it later or use the US Keyboard during
the installation.
All three French Canadian keyboards are QUERTY keyboard.
Where you see QWERTY on the French Canadian keyboard you
see AZERTY on the European French keyboard. This is not
the only thing that confuse people. The / key is not found
easily and to get the numbers under the function keys you 
have to press on the shift key. Most people used to a QWERTY
keyboard would never think of that one.

The keyboard I use is this one http://www.externe.net/clavier-normalise/
I will provide a patch to OpenSuse for it when I get it all debugged.
SuSE doesn't provide the proper files for it and the ones from the
Québec government are still buggy. I have one that works and am
learning how xkb works so I can provide a patch to an upcoming
OpenSuSE version.
Comment 5 Michel Catudal 2005-09-27 01:36:31 UTC
(In reply to comment #2)
> Please attach the complete /var/log/YaST2 directory.
> See https://bugzilla.novell.com/page.cgi?id=fields.html#bug_severity
> 

This would not help you because I installed using the US Keyboard and
switched to the proper keyboard later. I got burned too many times.
This problem has always been there and I have bought most of the
SuSE distributions since version 6.0

I have used the French Canadian install when I installed the
32 bits version but wiped the installation out to install the
64 bits version where I used the US Keyboard during installation.


I will ask one of my brothers who lives in Québec (Canada) for his
files. He's the one I had to help enter the correct password since
he wasn't familiar with the AZERTY keyboard.
I work for a French company in Elkhart Indiana so I see those
ridiculous keyboards often.



Comment 6 Jiří Suchomel 2005-09-27 06:01:16 UTC
Marcus, for console yast2-country uses cf.map.gz, which is qwerty keyboard map.
So the problem seems to be in default mapping this to X11 keymap. Currently,
'/usr/sbin/xkbctrl cf' returns

$[
   "XkbVariant"   : "fr",
   "XkbLayout"    : "ca",
   "XkbModel"     : "pc105",
   "Apply"        : "-variant fr -layout ca -model pc105"
]

Michel, it would help if you know which values are correct for X11 keyboard.
Comment 7 Marcus Schaefer 2005-09-27 13:49:46 UTC
yes if you don't mind please add that information. Thanks  
Comment 8 Michel Catudal 2005-09-29 02:48:22 UTC
"Protocol"     : "Standard"
"XkbLayout"    : "ca_enhanced",      or "fr_CA"
"XkbModel"     : "pc105",

I don't know about the variant

what I know is that it doesn't load it, ca should be a valid keyboard
It is also a QUERTY keyboard.

There are three Keyboards,
Multilingual (ca)
French Canadian (cf)
Normalized      (cn)

You could get my CN keyboard on my web page at
http://home.comcast.net/~mcatudal/ tonight or tomorrow
It will be on the front page "Keyboard for SuSE" or something like that.

I will put the CN console keyboard file on the weekend. I haven't tested it yet.
I will eventually update the latest xkeycaps when I get some time. If you take
a look you will find out that I was the one who had added the French Canadian
keyboard to it a few years back.

You may have to change a few of my choices as I use the microsoft
keys for some other stuff. I live in Michigan and all I got is
a US keyboard and there is one key missing which I put on one of
the right hand windows key. I also found it more convenient to
have the ctrl Gr key on the left windows keys.
What is basically different with this keyboard versus the others
is that it has not only alt gr but both alt gr and ctrl gr.
The keyboard is truly a multilingual keyboard. There is a company
in Montréal that sells stickers that you can put on the changed keys
on the keyboard. Any keyboard can then be converted to that keyboard.
Comment 9 Jiří Suchomel 2005-09-29 05:51:54 UTC
I still have a question with this:

are you complaining that "French Canadian" keyboard selected in YaST keyboard
selection has _not_ the correct layout for French Canadian keyboard or
that you want to select different keyboard layout which fits for you but is not
provided by the YaST list?

(Please answer with no more than one paragraph :-)).
If Marcus is in the picture, just forget my comment.
Comment 10 Marcus Schaefer 2005-09-29 10:34:46 UTC
Hmm, I'm lost a bit here. you told us that the old style   
   
   "XkbLayout"    : "fr_CA"  
   "XkbModel"     : "pc105"  
  
fits your needs. The new XKB files splitted up all those combinations  
into a basic layout and a variant which means fr_CA is a French Canadian 
keyboard or in others words a Canadian base keyboard with a French variant 
which is written as: 
 
   "XkbLayout"    : "ca" 
   "XkbVariant"   : "fr" 
 
and this is exactly what xkbctrl reports and what is set to xorg.conf 
Well I'm not an expert here but it's really important to understand what 
your problem is. fr_CA should be the same as ca + variant fr if it isn't this 
seems to be a bug in XKB 
Comment 11 Stefan Dirsch 2005-09-29 12:01:29 UTC
In short, does "setxkbmap -layout ca -variant fr -model pc105 -v" work for you? 

Looks like during installation the "fr" keyboard layout is used whereas after
installation for configuration with SaX2 the "ca" keyboard layout with variant
"fr" is used. This looks like a bug in YaST and not SaX2/X11.
Comment 12 Stefan Dirsch 2005-09-29 15:07:07 UTC
Selecting "Francais" as language and "Francais (canadien)" works fine for me
during complete installation and afterwards as well. I always get the QWERTY
keyboard. I tested with RC4/final.